Looks pretty much abandoned. First thing I looked for was jq (added in Sequoia) but it isn’t there. Then I looked at the repo. All commit activity was during the same week, three years ago. A couple issues opened, with no progress.
One thing that always grinds my gears is how the macOS filesystem is a hodgepodge of stuff thrown around without any apparent logic (similarly to Windows), which is in stark contrast to the also apparently illogical but standardised hierarchy of Linux and the BSDs. I do understand their need to keep the /System directory around for the Classic days, but /usr? /sbin? The only "fixed" file should be /usr/bin/env, all the rest should be in /System. The mix of classic UNIX directories and Classic is annoying
> The only "fixed" file should be /usr/bin/env, all the rest should be in /System
Modern macOS separates things that are protected by System Integrity Protection and are unalterable (checksummed) in /System. Everything else, including user-customizable system components go in /Library.
Modern macOS file structure is highly organized and easy to reason about if you have even a beginner’s understanding of its security implementation.
It isn't as if UNIX is any piece of fine art in filesystems design, especially clear to everyone that has used multiple commercial UNIXes.
People should stop worshiping UNIX System V, while ignoring the chaos that came later with the explosion of UNIX clones.
There is a reason why the UNIX authors then went on designing Plan 9, followed by Inferno, while trying to fix what they percevied as design flaws in UNIX, from filesytem, security model, process execution model, and userspace languages.
I won't argue with your point because you are right, I was arguing that at least Linux and the BSDs, despite their stupid hierarchy, at least have standards that assign those directories specific functions. This is in stark opposition with Windows and macOS, where across the years stuff has been chucked basically everywhere (especially on Windows, which is the worst offender in this regard) without a lot of care about what was being put where. On macOS you can find binaries inside frameworks, stuff in /usr/bin, stuff in /sbin, stuff under System, ... and for quite a long time there really wasn't any apparent logic behind it except that it was the most convenient place to put it, similarly on Windows where some 64-bit programs chuck stuff in the 32-bit program application directory just because
What's so hard to understand about "apparently illogical but standardised"? I never said it was beautiful, I said that despite being dumb [^1] at least there is a standard for it (https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html). So yeah here are nonsensical directories like /opt, but at least they have a clear purpose, compared to the "well who cares, chuck it in there" approach NeXT/Apple had when tossing stuff around (sure, they've now "improved" that with SIP nowadays, but it's still a mess IMHO)
[1]: for instance, "usr" contains libraries only due to the first PDP7 at bell labs having two disks, the first mounted as /, the second as /usr (user). When they ran out of space under /, they replicated the filesystem structure in their user disk, thus the birth of /usr/bin and the like. When /usr got too cluttered they created /home (or /usr/home, don't recall which)
On the other hand, their /Applications directory is genius. No need for databases to track which files belong to which application. Everything belonging to an application resides in its subdirectory of /Applications. Installing and removing software becomes incredibly simple.
Except stuff in /Library/Application Support. Oh, and /Library/Extensions. Oh, and /Library/DriverExtensions. Oh, and /Library/LaunchAgents. And /Library/LaunchDaemons. Also /Library/Perl (this is Apple-provided) and /Library/TeX (this is not, this is MacTeX). And /Library/Developer.
Also, the dread of "removal instructions" that include stuff like "go through these directories and delete things that look like they belong to this software".
When available I prefer installing applications via brew as casks, since at least this way if I decide to uninstall it later brew will take care of deleting all of these associated directories.
I remember using an app called AppZapper several years ago which did this but for arbitrary applications. No idea if it’s still around/maintained.
There's `brew uninstall --zap $application`[1], and there's pretty decent coverage, but it's by no means comprehensive. If you feel inclined to contribute, the process is quite streamlined, and there's a helper script[2].
I used Appcleaner[3] for many years, and it's still perfectly serviceable
I'm keeping my eye on Pearcleaner[4], which is additionally open-source and written in Swift.
Younger me loved that Apple used Ruby and that Ruby was “pre installed” on the Mac.
This of course was because macOS relies on Ruby for certain things. However as a more experienced dev, the system Ruby (which is almost always very outdated), really gets in the way especially for beginners.
Anyone have more background on system Ruby and why it’s in macOS?
Back then macOS as a platform was quite polyglot with multiple scripting languages and bindings/bridges to ObjC. Being an OOTB dev box was a feature, notably with Web 2.0, and there was Rails right there as well as Apache too, and a thing called Mac OS X Server. IIRC they even had Java in there, with WebObjects, until the Oracle debacle.
Today on Tahoe, this is what remains:
$ uname -sr
Darwin 25.0.0
$ /usr/bin/ruby --version
ruby 2.6.10p210 (2022-04-12 revision 67958) [universal.arm64e-darwin25]
$ /usr/bin/bundle --version
Bundler version 1.17.2
$ /usr/bin/gem --version
3.0.3.1
$ /usr/bin/rails
Rails is not currently installed on this system. To get the latest version, simply type:
$ sudo gem install rails
You can then rerun your "rails" command.
$ perl -v
This is perl 5, version 34, subversion 1 (v5.34.1) built for darwin-thread-multi-2level
(with 2 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail)
$ python3 --version
Python 3.9.6
One can note the irony of the most up to date of those being Perl, probably a testament to its insane backwards compatibility.
> the system Ruby (which is almost always very outdated), really gets in the way
This also applies to Perl and especially Python. While relying on system Perl is bad but not terrible (Perl is very backward compatible, has good versioning of features, ...), I always have to fight against Mac users that keep using the outdated system Python instead of pulling a new one from Brew. Don't use the system interpreters folks! This is not Linux
The advice applies to Linux, too. The interpreter that "comes with the system" is usually there to accommodate other software within the distribution that is powered by that interpreter, and it's not guaranteed to stay where it is as you like it, or update when you want it updated, because there might be an application keeping it from getting updated.
It really depends, though. On rolling releases such as Arch Linux it's basically the latest version most of the time, so you can often just roll with it and get stuff done. On Debian and the like, absolutely, you shouldn't be using the system wide interpreters
Looks pretty much abandoned. First thing I looked for was jq (added in Sequoia) but it isn’t there. Then I looked at the repo. All commit activity was during the same week, three years ago. A couple issues opened, with no progress.
One thing that always grinds my gears is how the macOS filesystem is a hodgepodge of stuff thrown around without any apparent logic (similarly to Windows), which is in stark contrast to the also apparently illogical but standardised hierarchy of Linux and the BSDs. I do understand their need to keep the /System directory around for the Classic days, but /usr? /sbin? The only "fixed" file should be /usr/bin/env, all the rest should be in /System. The mix of classic UNIX directories and Classic is annoying
> The only "fixed" file should be /usr/bin/env, all the rest should be in /System
Modern macOS separates things that are protected by System Integrity Protection and are unalterable (checksummed) in /System. Everything else, including user-customizable system components go in /Library.
Modern macOS file structure is highly organized and easy to reason about if you have even a beginner’s understanding of its security implementation.
It isn't as if UNIX is any piece of fine art in filesystems design, especially clear to everyone that has used multiple commercial UNIXes.
People should stop worshiping UNIX System V, while ignoring the chaos that came later with the explosion of UNIX clones.
There is a reason why the UNIX authors then went on designing Plan 9, followed by Inferno, while trying to fix what they percevied as design flaws in UNIX, from filesytem, security model, process execution model, and userspace languages.
But at least there's a standard that specifies what the directories are supposed to mean: https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html
I won't argue with your point because you are right, I was arguing that at least Linux and the BSDs, despite their stupid hierarchy, at least have standards that assign those directories specific functions. This is in stark opposition with Windows and macOS, where across the years stuff has been chucked basically everywhere (especially on Windows, which is the worst offender in this regard) without a lot of care about what was being put where. On macOS you can find binaries inside frameworks, stuff in /usr/bin, stuff in /sbin, stuff under System, ... and for quite a long time there really wasn't any apparent logic behind it except that it was the most convenient place to put it, similarly on Windows where some 64-bit programs chuck stuff in the 32-bit program application directory just because
Those "standards" are followed upon various Linux distributions with some degree of flexibility in what they actually mean.
> also apparently illogical but standardised hierarchy of Linux and the BSDs
Hmm.
And many more. Some directories are symlinks to another. Some of these directories do not exist on some distributions.Why are Linux people always so misguided and haughty?
What's so hard to understand about "apparently illogical but standardised"? I never said it was beautiful, I said that despite being dumb [^1] at least there is a standard for it (https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html). So yeah here are nonsensical directories like /opt, but at least they have a clear purpose, compared to the "well who cares, chuck it in there" approach NeXT/Apple had when tossing stuff around (sure, they've now "improved" that with SIP nowadays, but it's still a mess IMHO)
[1]: for instance, "usr" contains libraries only due to the first PDP7 at bell labs having two disks, the first mounted as /, the second as /usr (user). When they ran out of space under /, they replicated the filesystem structure in their user disk, thus the birth of /usr/bin and the like. When /usr got too cluttered they created /home (or /usr/home, don't recall which)
On the other hand, their /Applications directory is genius. No need for databases to track which files belong to which application. Everything belonging to an application resides in its subdirectory of /Applications. Installing and removing software becomes incredibly simple.
Except stuff in /Library/Application Support. Oh, and /Library/Extensions. Oh, and /Library/DriverExtensions. Oh, and /Library/LaunchAgents. And /Library/LaunchDaemons. Also /Library/Perl (this is Apple-provided) and /Library/TeX (this is not, this is MacTeX). And /Library/Developer.
Also, the dread of "removal instructions" that include stuff like "go through these directories and delete things that look like they belong to this software".
When available I prefer installing applications via brew as casks, since at least this way if I decide to uninstall it later brew will take care of deleting all of these associated directories. I remember using an app called AppZapper several years ago which did this but for arbitrary applications. No idea if it’s still around/maintained.
There's `brew uninstall --zap $application`[1], and there's pretty decent coverage, but it's by no means comprehensive. If you feel inclined to contribute, the process is quite streamlined, and there's a helper script[2].
I used Appcleaner[3] for many years, and it's still perfectly serviceable
I'm keeping my eye on Pearcleaner[4], which is additionally open-source and written in Swift.
[1] https://docs.brew.sh/Cask-Cookbook#stanza-zap
[2] https://github.com/nrlquaker/homebrew-createzap
[3] https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/
[4] https://itsalin.com/appInfo/?id=pearcleaner
Appcleaner does this. One of first installs on a fresh macos.
I'd love to see some deeper automated analysis.
For example the XPC endpoints the binary offers and a list of other binaries which reference those.
Maybe the launch modalities, system vs. User session, which paths it reads/writes.
Not sure if all of those things can be staically determined by some tooling, but it would be really helpful.
Basically, links to virustotal and results of running in their sandboxes.
It seems to work for most stuff in /usr/{,s}bin /{,s}bin /usr/libexec but not all of /System/Library just yet.
Automator Installer -> /System/Library/CoreServices/Automator Installer.app/Contents/MacOS/Automator Installer
"There is no exact information for this binary file."
webdavfs_agent -> /System/Library/Extensions/webdav_fs.kext/Contents/Resources/webdavfs_agent
"The webdavfs_agent binary is unknown"
Pretty cool tool, I used it to lookup system ruby.
https://macosbin.com/bin/ruby
Younger me loved that Apple used Ruby and that Ruby was “pre installed” on the Mac.
This of course was because macOS relies on Ruby for certain things. However as a more experienced dev, the system Ruby (which is almost always very outdated), really gets in the way especially for beginners.
Anyone have more background on system Ruby and why it’s in macOS?
Back then macOS as a platform was quite polyglot with multiple scripting languages and bindings/bridges to ObjC. Being an OOTB dev box was a feature, notably with Web 2.0, and there was Rails right there as well as Apache too, and a thing called Mac OS X Server. IIRC they even had Java in there, with WebObjects, until the Oracle debacle.
Today on Tahoe, this is what remains:
One can note the irony of the most up to date of those being Perl, probably a testament to its insane backwards compatibility.The most insane thing of them all insane things is that that Perl ships with DBIx::Class — in /System/Library/Perl/5.34, no less!
I'm wondering what in the world is the system using DBIx::Class for.
> the system Ruby (which is almost always very outdated), really gets in the way
This also applies to Perl and especially Python. While relying on system Perl is bad but not terrible (Perl is very backward compatible, has good versioning of features, ...), I always have to fight against Mac users that keep using the outdated system Python instead of pulling a new one from Brew. Don't use the system interpreters folks! This is not Linux
The advice applies to Linux, too. The interpreter that "comes with the system" is usually there to accommodate other software within the distribution that is powered by that interpreter, and it's not guaranteed to stay where it is as you like it, or update when you want it updated, because there might be an application keeping it from getting updated.
It really depends, though. On rolling releases such as Arch Linux it's basically the latest version most of the time, so you can often just roll with it and get stuff done. On Debian and the like, absolutely, you shouldn't be using the system wide interpreters
Would it be possible to list all binaries alphabetically on one page?
[dead]